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ENN Chat Transcript -- Reefballs

Copyright 2000, Environmental News Network

<ENN Chat> Nice to see you here tonight Todd.
<Todd Barber> Just made it, they installed DSL on our internet connection today and I was a bit concerned
<Mary> Well, I'm a total novice on the reef ball, so I came to mainly listen and learn.
<Todd Barber> Mary, how are you involved with restoration of coral reefs?
<Mary> I'm in the south Florida area so I would assume this is one of the areas that is utilizing the reef ball?
<Todd Barber> Yes, we have lots of Reef Balls in Florida...
<Todd Barber> What part of S. Florida are you from?
<Mary> I'm in the West Palm Beach area
<Todd Barber> Of course, we build Reef Balls all around the world. Over 1000 projects in 50 countries
<ENN Chat> What is your favorite project?
<Todd Barber> Mary, we have Reef Balls in West Palm Beach....in the inland waterway near Peanut Island
<Mary> Are they using the reef balls mainly for mitigation efforts?
<Todd Barber> They are actually some of the first Reef Balls every installed...in 1993
<Todd Barber> Reef Balls are used for a variety of purposes....mitigation is only one.
<Todd Barber> Some examples include fishing reefs, scuba diving reefs, beach erosion control, deterring of fishing netting...
<Todd Barber> The list goes on and on.
<Todd Barber> My Favorite project? I love them ALL!
<Mary> Ahhh..that's right..I forget that the reefs are part of the erosion problems throughout the world.
<Todd Barber> Yes, they are used for species diversity issues, for marine reserves, as anchoring buoys...and still more
<Mary> juvenile fish sanctuary?
<Todd Barber> Yes Mary, juvenile fish love Reef Balls with added internal complexity...we usually fill them 1/3 with rock
<Todd Barber> This provides habitat for the fish settling out of the larval stages of life...actually creating fish that would otherwise not have survived.
<Mary> I'll have to go to your web site and read up on them a bit more. I'm new to this area so I'm trying to catch up on reef knowledge
<Bob George> About how long does it take for a reef ball to be completely covered given optimal conditions?
<Todd Barber> There is over 1000 pages of information at www.reefball.com
<Todd Barber> Also try www.reefball.org, www.reefballcoaltion.com, www.eternalreefs.com
<Mary> wow! I'll have to allocate a block of time to settle in and read all of it.
<Todd Barber> Bob, the first month, the fish move in and it is covered mostly with algae. Within 6 months it is covered with soft corals, and intermediate growth. Hard corals sometimes take 1-5 years to really begin to show. But you hit the nail on the head...it depends on conditions...location, season, sunlight, currents, larval flows, etc. Mary, you can also request a video from us...it's free and in 20 minutes you'll get all the highlights. Many of the videos are on the website in RealPlayer format.
There's also lots and lots of pictures...that tells the real story.
<Ellen Horne> Hi Todd. I wonder if you might tell us a little about oil rigs (sp.?), wrecks and other "artificial reefs."
<Mary> is the request form on your web page? I'm a full-time student so my hours are a bit hectic right now
<Todd Barber> Well Ellen, that is a tricky subject
<Todd Barber> In some respects these items are good "people attractors"
<Todd Barber> That is they are good for divers and fishermen
<Todd Barber> However, the high profile of these objects can attract more fish than on a natural reef
<Todd Barber> This causes some problems....one a depletion of local food sources
<Todd Barber> And, second, without protection it is very easy to overfish these structures.
<Mary> But, by attracting more people, don't they also expose themselves to a great deal of damage in their formative stages?
<Todd Barber> Mary, you are right this can be another problem
<Todd Barber> Also, these structures often contain Iron, which is biologically active and harmful to corals and other species that can grow...therefore they are not natural reefs.
<Todd Barber> Reef Balls, on the other hand essentially turn into real reefs with 100% natural species diversity and population density of nearby natural reefs.
<Mary> What is the composition of the reef balls? If they are concrete, don't they have a small amount of leaching into the water also?
<Todd Barber> Another drawback is that ships often move in storms...causing horrible damage to natural reefs in the path of the movement.
<Todd Barber> We use a pH neutralized concrete with an additive called Microsilica (Force 10,000 by W.R. Grace) that reduces the permeability of concrete,...
<Mary> so the wrecks actually become a type of rubble that shifts against natural formations in strong storm currents?
<Todd Barber> Essentially, Reef Balls are neutral in sea water. This is why even corals will settle on Reef Balls.
<Todd Barber> There are documented ships over 300 tons that have moved 3 miles...in Miami with the last hurricane.
<Todd Barber> Fortunately, Reef Balls are engineered to withstand hurricanes and in fact have done so in many many storms....even direct hits!
<Mary> Are the reef balls anchored to prevent the storms from moving them?
<Todd Barber> In most cases, no....we do anchor them in less than 10 feet of water in areas of extremely high energy or when we are doing breakwater projects.
<Mary> Then what prevents them from shifting in strong currents?
<Todd Barber> We must also anchor them when they are used as anchoring buoys because the ship's lines can add so much pressure.
<Todd Barber> There are several things...first, they have 80% of the weight in the bottom foot (they are very thick at the bottom and thinner at top)
<Todd Barber> This keeps them from rolling over.
<Ellen Horne> Have you told everyone about the thousand ball deployment? I'm from the Coral Reef Alliance - a partner in conservation with Reef Ball. We're really excited about the work that you guys do. How's that project going? When is the deployment? (Did I get the number right? 1,000?)
<Todd Barber> Next, we have a hole in the top that breaks up the lifting forces of currents....kinda like an airplane wing with holes.
<Todd Barber> I'll be with you in a second Ellen.
<Todd Barber> Also, the Reef Balls are engineered with side holes and a rounded shape...we even used wind tunnels at FIT to design them.
<Todd Barber> Now, Ellen....are you talking about the Kirbo Memorial Reef off Jacksonville and St. Augustine?...Yes they will deploy 1,000 Reef Balls
<Todd Barber> And probably more as two high schools are competing to get more than 1,000.
<Todd Barber> The Reef Ball Foundation is giving them an additional scholarship of $1,000 when they make the 1,000th ball (they are at 750 now)
<Ellen Horne> Yes! it's an exciting project. How much area will that reef cover? How long has it been in the works?
<Todd Barber> And then the school that makes the most gets another $1,000.
<Todd Barber> This has been in the works for about 1 year. It will cover two locations....each of several acres. One in Jacksonville one off St. Augustine.
<Todd Barber> The Reef Ball Foundation funding the entire project so no public money was spent!
<Todd Barber> It's a memorial to Charles Kirbo...Jimmy Carter's Lawyer and good friend.
<Todd Barber> Now it's a joint community project with schools, dive clubs, non-profit organizations and others joining together to improve the oceans.
<Todd Barber> It's really a wonderful project...we hope to repeat it every year in a different location.
<Ellen Horne> How were the locations chosen? I'm sure lots of places would love a thousand reef balls!
<Todd Barber> In this case, Charles Kirbo used to fish near Jacksonville all the time....it was his wish to have a memorial there.
<Todd Barber> We work nearly anywhere that folks want a project...if we have local support....we can make a project happen.
<Ellen Horne> How do you monitor and document the increase in fish abundance in the newly created reef?
<Todd Barber> The Foundation provides free molds to anyone that wants to start a project for public good.
<Todd Barber> Ellen, that is a good question....and there are lots of answers because we monitor for lots of reasons...not just fish abundance.
<Todd Barber> First of all, we require monitoring in all Foundation projects and recommend it in all others.
<Todd Barber> As a foundation, we are mostly concerned that the Reefs are similar to natural reefs so we hope monitoring will include species diversity and population density
<Todd Barber> studies compared to natural reefs.
<Todd Barber> However, we allow a wide range of monitoring protocols so that we are always increasing our knowledge...we like the local issues to be addressed
<Todd Barber> too. For example grouper or Jewfish counts are important on the west coast of Florida right now.
<Todd Barber> We will never get enough monitoring...but it's part of the challenge to make every reef better.
<Jay> It seems the inshore "under docks" applications are really expanding now too
<Todd Barber> There are some new national programs (Recon) that are standardizing monitoring that we think are really neat.
<Mary> Does Recon have a web site?
<Todd Barber> Yes, Recon is sponsored by the Marine Conservation Association.....send me an e-mail and I will look it up tomorrow
<Ellen Horne> Recon is CMC's -- center for marine conservation's program. I think they are http://www.cmc-oceans.org. Recon is a new program
<Todd Barber> (reefball@reefball.com)
<Todd Barber> Oh Yes, you are right Ellen..CMC...I got confused!
<Mary> Thank you
<Todd Barber> I just saw some of there new work at DEMA and it seemed quite impressive....but it is still new and too early to tell.
<Todd Barber> Jay, the EPA just did an article approving Reef Balls for under dock uses...I think this area will grow a lot!
<Todd Barber> We've got a copy of the article on our website if you are interested.
<Ellen Horne> I think they are beginning to train folks...but they are still working out some details. They will be doing a training in Bonaire in June for the Dive Festival. You can e-mail me ehorne@coral.org if you are interested joining us and getting trained in RECON and REEF fish ID.
<Todd Barber> Is anyone here going on the Tanya Streeter Reef Ball Coalition trip to Dominica?
<Jason Seeley> For sure :)
<Ellen Horne> I wish.
<Todd Barber> I can't wait....perhaps we can get some REEF fish ID or RECON training as part of that trip.
<Ellen Horne> What are your plans in Dominica?
<Ellen Horne> Oh, and when is it?
<Jason Seeley> I heard from reef check today and they want to add a reef check program to our trip.
<Todd Barber> It's an earth day event. Tanya Streeter (World Record Free diver) and I will lead it...
<Jason Seeley> April 18-25
<Todd Barber> We are going to build and deploy balls and have a fun time doing it...
<Todd Barber> It's a Reef Ball Coalition trip (www.reefballcoaltion.com)
<Todd Barber> I think they still have some space left for volunteers.
<Todd Barber> Hi Tim...welcome.
<Todd Barber> If you are new...you need to type in the white box at the bottom of the screen
<Tim Birthisel> Hello, everyone. Todd, that trip sounds like a wonderful time, I sure wish I could join you guys!
<Todd Barber> Why don't you...everyone needs a vacation and to help the oceans at the same time...well you can't beat that!
<Jay> Can I go?
<Todd Barber> Of course there is another way to help....www.eternalreefs.com
<Ellen Horne> That sounds like a great trip! It seems like there's a lot going on in the ocean for Earth Day. Tim, maybe you can hook up with something closer to home. I wish I could come, too! I'll be stuck stateside.
<Todd Barber> Hi Sussy, Welcome.
<Jason Seeley> Sure--come along
<Sussy> Hi
<Jason Seeley> I'll chip in 10 bucks Jay!
<Todd Barber> Where is everyone from (Except for Mary from West Palm)?
<Tim Birthisel> Todd, I have been spending all of my free time with my little aquaculture project in the Keys. I'm planning to head down from March 6-11 with a group of 20 students and 3 professors from Bowling Green State U to provide an "internship" experience for the students.
<Todd Barber> That sounds really neat...we aquaculture our model sized Reef Balls in the Keys for sale into the saltwater aquarium market.
<Todd Barber> Check out the Reef Ball project at the Boy Scout's High Adventure Sea Base on Islamorda when you are down there.
<Todd Barber> Sussy, don't be shy
<Tim Birthisel> That's a great idea, wish I had met you guys before I placed two semi loads of coquina on my site.
<Todd Barber> Is your site in state waters or federal?
<Tim Birthisel> Federal waters, off Plantation Key
<Todd Barber> Hi Maggie...welcome.
<Mary> Is it in the marine sanctuary?
<Todd Barber> Oh Federal..that explains it...they still don't allow coquina in State waters 'cause they claim they are not smart enough to know if it's natural or not.
<Sussy> Do you have experience only in saltwater?
<Tim Birthisel> Yes, I've worked with Jon Halas to get my permits, lots of red tape, but I am dedicated to being an ecologically oriented operator.
<Todd Barber> No, we have done many freshwater projects too.
<Sussy> Where?
<Todd Barber> But in Freshwater, often Reef Balls are only fish attractors and not true producers
<Todd Barber> Okechoobee, Venice Florida, Michigan, England, and lots of private ponds
<Jay> So...artificial reefs -- attraction vs. production -- settle the argument
<Todd Barber> Jay, I would need about two more hours...but to keep it short...Reef Balls are designed for production. E-mail me and I can give you the long answer.
<Todd Barber> Sussy, where are you located?
<Sussy> Europe
<Sussy> Barcelona
<Ellen Horne> Hang on... attraction/production... please clarify the conflict for us... long answers by e-mail of course...but could you give a preview?
<Todd Barber> We are sending 27 molds to Europe for use by PADI dive shops and operators...you should see lots of Reef Balls very soon.
<Todd Barber> In England, they use them in concrete lined canals to slow the waterflow to a rate where natural species can return.
<Tim Birthisel> In my experiences on the farm, I have been amazed at what I've learned first-hand, the interactions between the fish, plants and invertebrates have been very clear as I've watched the biodiversity build, starting from an empty sand "desert" and becoming a reef, complete with predators to keep everything under control. It's amazing how much reproductive energy is in the system, as I'm sure you've seen as well.
<Todd Barber> Okay Ellen...their was a scientific debate posed by Bonsack as to whether Artificial Reefs only attracted fish or if...
<Todd Barber> they provided habitats and produced fish.
<Todd Barber> As we discussed earlier...many artificial reefs, especially tall profile ones serve mostly to attract....
<Todd Barber> (Fish have a lateral line that allows them to sense any structure when a current move past it...even without seeing it...
<Tim Birthisel> Todd, I'd be happy to send you the photos of fish eggs which sometimes seem to cover my farm, no question about production in my mind.
<Todd Barber> it is an evolutionary response for them to move to structure because natural reefs have food and shelter)
<Todd Barber> Anyway....Reef Balls actually allow for fish to grow in all life stages and therefore produce fish like a natural reef.
<Todd Barber> Yes Tim, in fact, smaller reefs with high complexity are at the top of the production end of things....
<Tim Birthisel> It is amazing how structure attracts herbivores, which control macroalgae nicely, as well.
<Todd Barber> Scientists have now shown that getting fish to 1 inch or so in length is critical...and it is not a lack of food that
<Todd Barber> does this only shelter from predation.
<Todd Barber> It's all a very very complex system...and it can be different in every locations....If I have learned anything it is not to generalize
<Todd Barber> Hi G-menDad, and Kriss, Welcome
<Kriss> Hello
<g-menDad> hi
<Todd Barber> Where are you two from?
<Kriss> Texas
<g-menDad> Ohio
<Todd Barber> Well, we have Reef Balls in Texas too...have you visited them?
<Todd Barber> I was born in Ohio...but I think the closest Reef Balls are in Michigan.
<Kriss> How many projects do you have around the world?
<Tim Birthisel> That makes three Buckeyes so far...
<Todd Barber> Well over 1,000 with well over 50,000 Reef Balls deployed.
<Todd Barber> Go Buckeyes!
<Tim Birthisel> Why is it we always seem to be in the thick of things?
<Todd Barber> Do you know that Ohio has more certified divers than any other state!
<Todd Barber> That fact shocked me.
<Tim Birthisel> Somehow it doesn't surprise me
<Kriss> I don't think so
<Tim Birthisel> I think it's because of the winters, actually. It's a great state to be from in winter.
<Todd Barber> Yep. Texas and Florida are 3 and 2
<Todd Barber> Maybe they count the buckeyes like me that moved south and stayed!
<Kriss> you said that because you don't know my family!
<Tim Birthisel> Anyway, I must say how much I admire the elegance of the reefball design! Pure genius.
<Kriss> However, when you started with reef ball?
<Todd Barber> Thank you, but I don't take all the credit...it took 27 of us 5 years to get it right...and we are still improving it everyday.
<Tim Birthisel> A true gift to the planet, hope it helps make up for some of the harm we do.
<Todd Barber> Welcome Brandee.
<brandee> thank you :)
<Todd Barber> That is my hope...but since I was born, we've lost over 30% of all the coral reefs in the world.
<Todd Barber> So far, Reef Balls have only added about .02% of that back...we have a long way to go.
<Todd Barber> Still, that .02% adds up to over 8 billion pounds of biomass over the next 500 years.
<Mary> That's a frightening statistic
<brandee> i am moving to south Florida and care deeply for our oceans....do you have any suggestions for organizations i might be able to volunteer for?
<Tim Birthisel> A great pity..reefs are the most prominent sign of life when the planet is viewed from space, and they are that important.
<Todd Barber> Yes it is...and that is why I gave up my job as a management consultant to do Reef Ball full time for no salary.,
<Todd Barber> And second only to the rainforests in species diversity...the most precious resource we have on the planet.
<Mary> Not to mention, if the ocean dies, we die
<Todd Barber> Yes Brandee
<Todd Barber> There are lots of great organizations...it depends on your area of specific interest, your skills and your amount of time.
<Tim Birthisel> Brandee, since Todd is being modest, may I recommend you stay in touch with his group.
<brandee> forgive me....i have joined late....have scientists categorized what's killing all of these reefs?
<Todd Barber> Yes, I can tell you with my favorite quote.....
<Todd Barber> "We know exactly what is wrong with our coral reefs...they are allergic to man."
<brandee> yes...I'd love to stay in touch ..i just wasn't' sure where they are based, etc.
<Jason Seeley> Brandee--I think you should join me on a trip to Dominica in April to celebrate earth day.
<Kriss> I only can say Thanks for help replace some of the coral reefs that are being lost every year
<Todd Barber> Where are you moving Brandee.
<brandee> delray beach area
<ENN Chat> Well, we have about 3 minutes left. Feel free to wrap things up, Todd.
<Todd Barber> Well, if anyone has more questions....always feel free to e-mail me....I make it a point to answer all e-mails personally.
<Kriss> Thanks for help the life
<Todd Barber> And everyone...do anything you can...but do something to help our oceans.
<brandee> i did my undergrad degree in marine science....what's your e-mail again...sorry
<Jason Seeley> For more info about Reef building trips to the Caribbean go to www.reefballcoalition.com
<Tim Birthisel> This has been great! Thanks to everyone for not bashing entrepreneurs.
<Todd Barber> reefball@america.net
<ENN Chat> Thanks very much for coming to the chat tonight everyone.
<Ellen Horne> It's very important to stay positive. Reef ball is doing great work to help reverse the trend. We've experienced great losses, but with so many people working hard, we are hopeful that we can keep reefs alive. Keep up the great work, Todd.
<Todd Barber> I will be glad to answer you with more specifics brandee later.
<Mary> Thank you for being here to share the information with us. And most of all, thank you for caring about the reefs and oceans.
<Todd Barber> or reefball@reefball.com
<ENN Chat> Todd, thanks very much for time tonight.
<Todd Barber> Thanks to ENN too for providing us with this forum!
<Sussy> Is so good to heard about this
<Todd Barber> Goodnight all.
<Tim Birthisel> Do it again!
<Mary> Goodnight~
<Jason Seeley> Don't forget www.reefball.com
<Jay> goodnight
<ENN Chat> Goodnight all - the transcript will be published tomorrow.
<Jason Seeley> goodnight
<Todd Barber> With a spell checker I hope!
<ENN Chat> Yep.
<ENN Chat> Talk to you soon Todd.
<Todd Barber> Thanks.

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